More for y'all to dicker over

[elfs]

In case anyone wants to get serious, here is the text of Georgia's HB 1477.

(1) Such person circumcises, excises, or infibulates, in whole or in part, the labia majora, labia minora, or clitoris of a female;

(2) Such person is a parent, guardian, or has immediate custody or control of a female child under 18 years of age and causes or permits the circumcision, excision, or infibulation, in whole or in part, of the labia majora, labia minora, or clitoris of the child; or

(3) Such person removes or causes or permits removal of a female child under 18 years of age from this state, for the purpose of circumcising, excising, or infibulating, in whole or in part, the labia majora, labia minora, or clitoris of the child.

I think fallenpegasus is right. It never occurred to the sponsors that an adult would want such a thing done to him or herself. When told that some might, one said he'd never heard of it but "I don't think that's something people ought to be doing to themselves."

Comments

Re: I want to see that EXACT language about circumcision

[shadowfey.livejournal.com]

Traditionally, a small amount of wine is given to the infant before the circumcision is done. I haven't attended any, but part of the purpose of this part of the ritual was anesthetic in nature; Jewish custom prohibits anything which might be deemed 'unnecessary pain'.

It's for that reason that different kinds of beasts are not legally permitted to be harnessed together, because it would create a strain and hardship on one of the animals if not both (which has been taken as supporting evidence in forms of Christianity against mixed race or religion marriages), and for that reason that animals are not permitted to be muzzled during threshing or other purposes (since that would be deemed to be torturous to the animal, to see and smell food and not be able to eat during its work).

While I'm not going to go into my own views on circumcision here, I will note that there is anesthetic given in the form of the wine.

Re: I want to see that EXACT language about circumcision

[shunra.livejournal.com]

Wine as an anesthetic?

Are you trying to make some sort of joke?

I am painfully familiar with the traditions of Judaism. Including the ruse of wine-before-cutting-off-the-foreskin. Rabbis have, in my hearing, told me that "it doesn't hurt the kid a bit". On other occasions, they have said that "it's as bad as the pain of circumcision" which they used to describe as a willing sacrifice.

Orthodox Judaism is a pox on the face of the earth. Let's not even START talking about the treatment of animals (kosher slaughter of cattle is probably the cruelest thing done wholesale).

You may have some other ideas about Judaism, but if you read about the practice (or know it first hand) you'd be hard pressed to maintain it simultaneously with any kind of compassion towards animals. Or humans.

Re: I want to see that EXACT language about circumcision

[http://users.livejournal.com/dominic-m-/]

Woah woah. No need for sarcasm people.this is going fine as a debate,quite heated but entertaining. Lets just agree that circumcision is painfull and barbaric yet continues to happen. Simple enough?

Re: I want to see that EXACT language about circumcision

[shunra.livejournal.com]

anyone who uses "a drop of wine on a pacifier" as equivalent to anesthetic has got to have some other agenda - not "discussion of situation".

barbaric. painful. - yeah. nonconsensual (at 8 days old) - yeah. defensible? no way.

Re: I want to see that EXACT language about circumcision

[http://users.livejournal.com/dominic-m-/]

I agree totally. However this country is BASED on people following their own beliefs because this country supposedly offers religios freedom. Now unless you want someone questioning or worse yet banning your religious beliefs/acts I recommend you are as adament as I am in fighting people who would regulate OUR freedoms that are ours to have.

Re: I want to see that EXACT language about circumcision

[shunra.livejournal.com]

I'd put the difference at "age of consent". 8 days old is simply too far below to make it acceptable to me.

Parents (in this country and elsewhere) assume the ownership of their children's bodies, and too often abuse this - and if genital mutilation is outlawed across the board (regardless of age) for one gender and not even discouraged (when inflicted upon minors) for another, I cry foul.

(Yeah, I'm a survivor of pretty extreme Jewish abuse.)