Boosting the signal: Pollution in China

[elfs]

Luke 23:34.

Except that's not true, is it?

Comments

[tagryn]

Its difficult to argue with results, though: the rise of so many in China and India out of poverty is one of the economic miracles of the past century. I don't think it was mere coincidence that this happened after they largely junked their socialist economic models and embraced globalization (nee: capitalism).

What's interesting is that there could be an effective alliance between the Left and the Right on a movement advocating returning manufacturing to the U.S.: from the Left on social justice grounds (re: offshoring pollution to other countries to make goods we consume), from the Right that outsourcing hurts the economy and sends jobs overseas. However, the two sides are too far apart anymore to recognize potential common ground.

[(Anonymous)]

My point actually, is that if you want a capitalist society, you need to exploit a desperate underclass somehow. If you improve the brutal conditions and meagre pay of the factory workers, then it all unravels and the whole system becomes too expensive for it to sustain itself. It has already happened in the rich industrialized countries, which is why nearly all the manufacturing has been outsourced to places with large, desperate underclasses willing to work in poisonous environments for meagre pay.

These are the results of capitalism. It's inherent to the system. Don't be so surprised.

[tagryn]

Capitalism <> industrialization. I think you're ascribing to capitalism what is really a byproduct of industrialization, namely the sacrifices made by the workers and population for the process to go forward. Of course, the workers gain a lot in the bargain too, which was my point. I don't share Marx's belief that proletariat lacks consciousness of their situation; instead, they know their life is hard, but can see in tangible ways how it is better than before, and so are willing to put up with the downside of industrialization because of all the benefits it brings. A post-industrialized society already has all those benefits and takes them for granted, and so is less willing to continue to bear the burdens of manufacturing/industry when it can be outsourced elsewhere with minimal cost.