Most men don't like sex
Apr. 21st, 2014 09:36 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
elfsI have this thesis that I've been discussing with my friends both on-line and off, and most of them, to my surprise, actually agree with the basic premise:
Most men don't like sex
There's some evidence for this, but let's start with the two basic arguments.
First, for most men, who are heterosexual, the outlet for their sexual needs is primarily women. If that's so, then you'd think men would praise women who grant enthusiastic consent, but they don't. No, for women for whom enthusiastic consent is high on their list of priorities, the terms our culture assigns them are "slut," "slattern," and "whore." Our culture treats them like a used candy, a dead rose, a cup of warm spit. There are no equivalent terms among men. If men liked sex, they'd respect the women who would enjoy providing it. They don't like those women, therefore their motives for seeking sex must be something other than enjoyment of it.
Secondly, given that most men claim to "enjoy sex" "with women," you'd think they'd actually be good at it. A man would be willing to read up on it, figure out how to communicate with his partner, how to ask and tell, how to actually discover what his partner likes, and how to get back what he wants. You think he'd be willing to experiment. But most men aren't willing. Most men don't care enough.
At the extreme, let's argue that it's actually the men who want babies. They've controlled women's opportunities to have children throughout the ages, so it's clear our species-wide reproductive success is primarily mens' responsibility. If they wanted to enjoy sex, they would. But I theorize that what they really seek is relief from the reproductive drive. For men, sex is a biologically dominant need that exists only to encourage the reproductive act.
For women, the price of actually having children is high, but since childbirth is months separated from the act of intercourse, there's no reason to believe that evolution has exapted a woman's sexuality to be associated with having children. It just feels good for women, an exapted reward that exists only to discourage a woman from rejecting the man's dark, passionate need to make babies.
I don't think the extreme thesis is strong, but I think the original one deserves closer attention. Do men enjoy sex? Or do they enjoy the relief of having had sex, of having succeeded in their role, of having satisfied a biological urge?
To provide a strong analogy, it surprised me to discover that there are lots of people who don't like to eat. I know that barely a third of Americans like to cook, but it astonished me to learn how many people resent the time and effort it takes to acquire and eat even ready-made meals. There's an entire market dedicated converting the process of eating into "drinking something at your desk" that's meant to convince time-starved nerds they can spend more time programming and less eating.
The happiest countries on Earth are also those with extensive familial and communal food rituals. Sex isn't a daily need, but food is, and even in the ancient porneia, men still cared much more about where their next meal came from, because that was the difference between life and death. Yet here we are where this life-and-death matter, this engine of health and happiness, has become a nuisance, a burden, a timesink. Given that this is even possible for our species, the idea that sex would be even more easily dismissed or neglected by those with the power to dismiss it shouldn't be all that surprising.
The world is full of distractions. Not just in the pursuit of work, but also as substitutes for what men want: video games substitute for any sense of excellence, and porn substitutes for any sense of satisfaction. Compared to the actual struggle of seeing other people, namely women, as worthy companions, in the presence of whom men must be naked and vulnerable, caring and reflexive, in order to enjoy sex... well, I suspect a lot of men would rather not work that hard.
Between the effort of getting there and the payoff at the end, most men look at sex and conclude that, if it weren't for that damned drive, they wouldn't bother. They just don't like it that much.
Most men don't like sex
There's some evidence for this, but let's start with the two basic arguments.
First, for most men, who are heterosexual, the outlet for their sexual needs is primarily women. If that's so, then you'd think men would praise women who grant enthusiastic consent, but they don't. No, for women for whom enthusiastic consent is high on their list of priorities, the terms our culture assigns them are "slut," "slattern," and "whore." Our culture treats them like a used candy, a dead rose, a cup of warm spit. There are no equivalent terms among men. If men liked sex, they'd respect the women who would enjoy providing it. They don't like those women, therefore their motives for seeking sex must be something other than enjoyment of it.
Secondly, given that most men claim to "enjoy sex" "with women," you'd think they'd actually be good at it. A man would be willing to read up on it, figure out how to communicate with his partner, how to ask and tell, how to actually discover what his partner likes, and how to get back what he wants. You think he'd be willing to experiment. But most men aren't willing. Most men don't care enough.
At the extreme, let's argue that it's actually the men who want babies. They've controlled women's opportunities to have children throughout the ages, so it's clear our species-wide reproductive success is primarily mens' responsibility. If they wanted to enjoy sex, they would. But I theorize that what they really seek is relief from the reproductive drive. For men, sex is a biologically dominant need that exists only to encourage the reproductive act.
For women, the price of actually having children is high, but since childbirth is months separated from the act of intercourse, there's no reason to believe that evolution has exapted a woman's sexuality to be associated with having children. It just feels good for women, an exapted reward that exists only to discourage a woman from rejecting the man's dark, passionate need to make babies.
I don't think the extreme thesis is strong, but I think the original one deserves closer attention. Do men enjoy sex? Or do they enjoy the relief of having had sex, of having succeeded in their role, of having satisfied a biological urge?
To provide a strong analogy, it surprised me to discover that there are lots of people who don't like to eat. I know that barely a third of Americans like to cook, but it astonished me to learn how many people resent the time and effort it takes to acquire and eat even ready-made meals. There's an entire market dedicated converting the process of eating into "drinking something at your desk" that's meant to convince time-starved nerds they can spend more time programming and less eating.
The happiest countries on Earth are also those with extensive familial and communal food rituals. Sex isn't a daily need, but food is, and even in the ancient porneia, men still cared much more about where their next meal came from, because that was the difference between life and death. Yet here we are where this life-and-death matter, this engine of health and happiness, has become a nuisance, a burden, a timesink. Given that this is even possible for our species, the idea that sex would be even more easily dismissed or neglected by those with the power to dismiss it shouldn't be all that surprising.
The world is full of distractions. Not just in the pursuit of work, but also as substitutes for what men want: video games substitute for any sense of excellence, and porn substitutes for any sense of satisfaction. Compared to the actual struggle of seeing other people, namely women, as worthy companions, in the presence of whom men must be naked and vulnerable, caring and reflexive, in order to enjoy sex... well, I suspect a lot of men would rather not work that hard.
Between the effort of getting there and the payoff at the end, most men look at sex and conclude that, if it weren't for that damned drive, they wouldn't bother. They just don't like it that much.
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no subject
Date: 2014-04-22 07:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-22 04:32 pm (UTC)By your hypothesis, if what men really wanted was the post-orgasm endorphin rush, wouldn't jerking off be enough?
no subject
Date: 2014-04-22 04:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-22 08:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-22 09:40 pm (UTC)I don't think they like it. Or if they do, they resent who they have to get it from.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-23 03:29 am (UTC)Thankfully, I don't have that experience with my current boyfriend.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-23 04:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-23 12:43 am (UTC)--nyssa
no subject
Date: 2014-04-23 03:19 pm (UTC)As to why they demean women who give sex freely... I don't think that has anything to do with not liking it; it's just that there are many people who work best when they're hypocrites: 'Do as I say, not as I do' ...
no subject
Date: 2014-04-24 05:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-24 09:48 am (UTC)This also extends to not being good at it... If you think you're in charge, then you think you're the one who knows best, so you don't bother seeking out anybody else's feedback... Taking instruction - whether passively or directly - emasculates and removes authority, so instead they prefer to live in their own little world where they are master of all they survey.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-26 08:02 am (UTC)Part of that is the crap nature of sex education. Yeah, they show you the mechanics and diseases, but there's almost always nothing about consent, communication, why internalizing shame is unhealthy, stuff like that. So, we as a culture learn about sexuality at a young age from TV, movies, mass-market pornography, all of which are dictated by the lowest common denominator and horribly simplified... and then we wonder why we're all fucked up when we become adults.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-28 06:02 pm (UTC)Doesn't help that so many POPULAR examples of maleness are (apparently) shallow, thoughtless, self-centered dickheads (looking at YOU, Nevada...) who don't get much variety (or much roughage) from the belief system.
In short, I think entirely too many men are entirely too ignorant of who they are and how they feel and what they want; too clueless and embarrassed to buck the herd; too easily threatened by another who actually wants to CONNECT - and ultimately too afraid that someone will notice.
MUCH easier to trash the females, they seem to think, but like I say, they're all messed up....
I do agree with you that the end result is men who SEEM obsessed with sex, but are afraid to ask, afraid to talk or even really engage, afraid of being laughed at, of not being a good enough playmate.
I have been such a man. Despite the most adventurous mind and longing heart, I am still largely such a man, even after years of real struggle to overcome, defuse, etc. My observations suggest it all gets more overwhelming as you approach the lower common denominators.
In fact, I'm saying 'hello again' in this post because I have recently (last 10 days) realized I have to COMPLETELY change the conversation(s) I have about sex...and this in the middle of the most protracted period of trust and happiness
Nice to see your stuff again, Elf - hope y'all are well and happy!
no subject
Date: 2014-05-01 09:50 pm (UTC)I can NEVER get over the bald hypocrisy in loving porn and hating the porn star (and all the variations thereof).
I think he has a point
Date: 2014-07-04 01:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 07:04 pm (UTC)