Those darn witches with guns...

[elfs]

In the U.S. Armed Services there is one chaplain for: every 106 Christian Scientists, every 427 Mormons, every 183 Jews, every 307 muslims, every 4,546 Buddhists (I guess Buddhists don't need that much guidance: they only have one chaplain, period).

Apparently, having even one Wiccan chaplain is out of the question. Donald Larsen, a Pentacostal chaplain with a long and umblemished record, decided he wanted to change his faith of registry to Wiccan. This has happened in the past and it is tradition for the church that initially endorsed the moral character of a man to a chaplaincy to not pull its endorsement as long as his new faith is "valid."

"But if it's not a valid thing, all bets are off," says retired Colonel Jim Ammerman, founder of the Chaplaincy of Full Gospel Churches, adding that Wiccans "run around naked in the woods" and "draw blood with a dagger" in their ceremonies. "You can't do that in the military. It's against good order and discipline." But role-playing cannibalism is healthy.

Larsen's endorsement was pulled. The Pentagon summarily ordered Larsen to cease all chaplain's activities and withdrew him from Iraq. Their excuse is that with only 950 congregants, there aren't enough Wiccans in the military to justify having a chaplain.

The Washington Post has more, although I loathe the "Let's start the article with something that'll make the readers think of Halloween!" opening.

Comments

[kenshardik]

Wiccans don't draw blood with a dagger. We use red magic markers, duh.

[elfs.livejournal.com]

"Sharpies or Sanford?"
"Sanford!"
"Medium tip or fine tip?"
"Medium tip!"
"Chisel or rounded?"
"Rounded!"
"Die, heretic scum!"

[edichka2.livejournal.com]

Pentecostal to Wiccan?!

- Eddie

[antonia-tiger.livejournal.com]

It scares them.

After all. it might lead to dancing.

[vik_thor]

Read the article.
Wow! 16 pages of comments!
I added my own comment to it, that if there had been a Wiccan chaplain at the Orlando Naval Training center, I might have survived basic training...

Although it's not the thinking the DoD used

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

sunfell made an excellent point in her post about this issue. You could consider Larsen a "faith-hopper". He only discovered Wicca in 2005, at which point he promptly abandoned Pentacostalism. Now, with only two years of experience as a Wiccan, he wants to be a chaplain. I'm not so thrilled with him.

Re: Although it's not the thinking the DoD used

[elfs.livejournal.com]

I think the point is that he was already a chaplain, and the endorsing sect traditionally does not revoke its endorsement if a chaplain changes faiths. It did in this case, directly implying that this change was beyond some normal level of acceptability and that the tradition would not be allowed to stand for it.

He may be a faith hopper. But that's somewhat irrelevant to the issue of whether or not Wiccans deserve a chaplain, and whether or not the normal procedures and traditions, even the unwritten ones, of chaplaincy were violated in this case because Wicca was involved.

[norincraft.livejournal.com]

It seems to me the concern about on some people's part is that someone's religious rights are being somehow infringed on. And that may be the case. But what I don't know is that Wiccanism is actually religion yet --it may be more of a proto-religion. But that would simply mean that the dogma has not developed yet, not that the core beliefs aren't set.

Now while I personally don't see this as a problem, it would seem to mean that there wouldn't be an endorsing agency. After all, if the beliefs are still being developed there may not be an agency to say "Yes, you understand our beliefs and we fell comfortable in you expressing them to the faithful as well as the non-believers".

And without an endorsing agency the military simply will not allow somebody to be a Chaplain.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that Wiccan is on the federal registry of religions, it just isn't "accepted" in the military.

-Michael

[norincraft.livejournal.com]

I don't really see this as contradictory.

Being a member of a recognized religion is a necessary requirement for being a chaplain but (at least according to the Army and I suspect for all the armed forces) it isn't sufficient requirement. You have to be credentialed in some fashion from an endorsing agency.

[elfs.livejournal.com]

And as the Universal Life Church so clearly illustrates, such credentials and the endorsing agency can be a complete sham.

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

"But if it's not a valid thing, all bets are off," says retired Colonel Jim Ammerman, founder of the Chaplaincy of Full Gospel Churches, adding that Wiccans "run around naked in the woods" and "draw blood with a dagger" in their ceremonies. "You can't do that in the military. It's against good order and discipline."

Right. In the military, you run around in uniform in the woods and draw blood with bigger weapons. Major difference there.

In any case, it's not as if even the Wiccans who do the "skyclad" and "blood ritual" things (not all do) simply do it at random. It's within the context of organized and "disciplined" ceremonies. It's not as if other troops would need to fear being set on by Maeneads.

Their excuse is that with only 950 congregants, there aren't enough Wiccans in the military to justify having a chaplain.

They do have a point there. I'm sure that there are plenty of tiny religious sects that don't have any chaplains representing them.

[elfs.livejournal.com]

As the article pointed out, there are only 636 Christian Scientists in uniform, and six Christian Scientist chaplains.

[tagryn]

*blinks*

This is confusing. I would think Elf! would be against the inclusion of religion into governmental organizations in *any* form, considering his past posts on the separation of church and state. Does this mean he's OK with institutions like chaplains - virtually a governmental endorsement of religion - as long as they're from one like Wicca?

[elfs.livejournal.com]

I am opposed to the inclusion of religion in government institutions. I also recognize that such separation is probably impossible in the case of the military at the present time, and to the extent that I must accept chaplains in the military I want the military to play fair and by the rules they themselves have lain down. It's quite clear that in this case Mr. Larsen is being jerked around by a military establishement that wishes to not be distracted by another Fort Hood (http://www.religioustolerance.org/boy_arm3.htm).

[(Anonymous)]

The State is supposed to be neutral in matters of religion, giving neither special support nor special discrimination to one religion over the others.

The State is quite obviously not doing that in this case.

I don't see a lot of latitude for debate here...

From CPT Larsen, US ARMY

[(Anonymous)]

Merry Meet friends, thanks for talking about this, freedom is what defines America and Pagans, in my opinion

Hope all are well and ready for SUMMER!

Bright blessings

Don

akathedonald@hotmail.com