Admiration.

[elfs]

I admire Ted Bundy. I mean, really. The guy was brilliant. Charasmatic to a fault, he could make people believe what he said even as he set them up for murder. I may not like what he did, but I surely admire him all the same for the dedication he had to his chosen role. He was focused, he was determined, and he was successful.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would say the above. And yet, there seems to be an incredible outpouring of support of John Paul II on the eve of his death, and I don't get it. "I don't like the fact that he emphasized and affirmed a centuries-old tradition that keeps women in their place, shackles men to unwelcome destinies, preaches an apocalyptic faith, seeks to undermine the Enlightment and turn back the clock on liberal democratic principles, and places an emphasis on spiritual care to such a degree that it encourages neglect of material needs, but damn I admire the strength with which he did those things."

Can you really say that with a straight face? Is admiration really the word you want to use?

Comments

[kenshardik]

Well, Hitler was a snappy dresser....

[elfs.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's it. Godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) the conversation in the first round.

[kenshardik]

Hee! Chalk it up to seeing Monty Python's "Mr. Hilter" sketch yesterday.

[whipartist.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can say that with a straight face, though I would probably use the word respect rather than admire.

I believe that John Paul II was fundamentally a good man. He believed deeply and sincerely, and had the courage to both follow his convictions and to lead with them. He played a key role in the downfall of communism in Poland. He reached out to Judaism and Islam in a way that no pope has in recent history. He touched many people and made their lives better.

At the same time, I believe that he was deeply and fundamentally wrong in many ways. Just plain wrong.

But yes, the bottom line is that I do admire and respect the man.


One of my favorite mental games is to pick out someone I despise-- Lon Mabon, Dubya, etc., and to find good things to say about them. It reminds me that the world is not black and white, and that people aren't either.

[memegarden.livejournal.com]

I'm curious--what do you like about Lon Mabon?

[whipartist.livejournal.com]

I respect Lon Mabon's ability to organize his followers, and his willingness to fight hard for his beliefs.

Unlike the pope, however, I think that Lon Mabon is basically evil. I believe that John Paul II was a good man with a deep love of humanity, but who fell under the influence of a sick cult. Lon Mabon is a hatemonger.

[memegarden.livejournal.com]

*nods*

I'm teed off at the outpouring of adulation myself

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

You might have a look at what I said in my journal, from the perspective of a former Catholic who remembers John XXIII and Paul VI well, and who felt herself shoved out of the Church by post-Vatican II counter-reformers.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[mundens.livejournal.com]

I don't admire him, but as someone else said, I respect him.

I respect his defiance of the Nazi's during WWII, I respect his defiance of the Soviet (and other) governments, I respect his desire to build friendships between fundamentally similar but often opposed religions, I respect his attempts to talk Bush out of starting an illegal and unjustifiable war in Iraq. I even respect his determination to try and keep going in the face of massively poor health.

But at that same time I condemn him for refusing to accept that condoms are not just a form of contraception, thus effectively condemning thousands of pious African women and their children to death by the cocks of their husbands.

As to the outpouring of praise and grief and such, you'd get exactly the same if Dubya was to die tomorrow, and even his enemies would join in. It's the old human way of not speaking ill of the dead and wanting to bask in the reflected glow of admiration.

The bad thing for African women is that of the two people most likely to take over, one, the African seems even more hard-line than Karol was.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

I admire him for two things: Having a big role, probably bigger than we'll ever know, in bringing down the Soviet Empire... and taking his own end with dignity and grace.

What happened between.... meh. Hey, if nothing else, it got American Catholics thinking about their own independence. One often needs a worthy adversary if one is to become great.

And I will say this: It's crisis time for Catholics. They can try and step back.... or they can be bold and step forward. Their Episcopal bretheren have done the latter, and I truly admire what it is they've done. The next few weeks will see whether the Catholics rise to the challenge.

[neowolf2.livejournal.com]

The problems go very deep, though. See John Derbyshire's comments (http://www.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire200504071043.asp) (ignoring some of the conservative bias).

I kept thinking of the Journal Entries when I was reading that.