Help me out here...

[elfs]

This morning, David Frum is in a fine mood. Commenting on some news stories circulating within the right-wing blogosphere that European courts have threatened to arrest George W. Bush, and so Bush has cancelled all trips out of the country, Frum writes:

If even a small portion of the news is true, President Obama has a duty to speak up and to warn foreign governments that further indulgence of this kind of nonsense by their court systems will be viewed as an unfriendly act by the United States. It is one more reminder of why the concept of an International Criminal Court is such an invitation to mischief.

And for those inclined to enjoy the mischief: Just wait until somebody serves an arrest warrant in Luxembourg on ex-President Obama for ordering all those drone strikes on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border

I'm trying to figure out why the arrest of someone for a criminal act is a bad thing. Aren't these guys all about law and order? Isn't the process-- especially for those that can afford it-- appropriate and right?

Comments

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

I personally despise the neocons. However, the issue with the European courts imho is one of Jurisdiction. What goes on in Pakistan or Iraq or Cuba is in no way, shape or form any business of the EU. Period. And foreign governments demanding that other nations do what they say or arrest warrants for their leaders will be issued is pretty obviously interference in that nation's affairs.

I have a similar dislike for my own govt. deciding that its laws cover the whole of the earth. But at least I can vote the bums out, and the jihadists did declare war on us first. While I dislike the flavor of the war, that's probably a good thing -- soon as we have a sweet war everyone likes, then the excrement is going to get extremely deep. But the last time I checked, the US hasn't bombed the EU. So the EU can go piss on the electric fence -- they'd be equally pissed if we decided years after East Germany fell that we were going to prosecute all the East German leaders for murdering civilians because it offended us. They'd tell us the same thing we should tell them -- unless the crime is on your soil, butt out.

[kengr]

The ship sailed *long* ago on this issue. Many countries (much of Europe and the US) adopted legal principles that say that if one of their citizens breaks their laws outside their territory, they'll prosecute anyway.

Classic example is prosecuting people for having sex with people in some other country who are underage in the home country.

More germane to the case of Bush is that the charges are likely "war crimes". And under the laws that govern *those* they *do* have jurisdiction. If nothing else, if their troops were involved *on either side*, they are *required* to try to do something.

[kengr]

I'm trying to figure out why the arrest of someone for a criminal act is a bad thing. Aren't these guys all about law and order? Isn't the process-- especially for those that can afford it-- appropriate and right?

Not when they refuse to admit that the acts *were* criminal.

They (and a lot of folks on the left as well) don't like the idea that under international law, the US *doesn't* get to do what it thinks is right without getting called on it or worse.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_candide_/]

I have to agree with kengr: for far too long, U.S. presidents — and often, unelected, appointed officials using the president as proxy — have been using the American military as their own private army, to do with as they please. Which, I might remind everyone, is exactly one of the things that the Founders were fighting against.

I'll also remind everyone that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al. were talking about invading Iraq in early 2001. Heck, The Capital Steps even did a joke-skit about it! So the Iraq War was premeditated, not defensive.

The only criticisms I have of the European courts in question is that (A) they're doing this too soon; and (B) they really should be going after Cheney & Rumsfeld first.

[bemused-leftist.livejournal.com]

Re prosecuting for drones.

Do we have to wait till he's an ex-president?

[oldhans117.livejournal.com]

Funny a few years ago the right wingers were all for Bill being arrested over the crime of winning the Bosnian war.
Oh right they see the Law only as a weapon to attack their enemies not as anything to due with justice.

Yeah!

[ideaphile.livejournal.com]

If Bush isn't guilty, why would he worry about getting arrested?

Good grief, Elf, one Ed Meese is enough.

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