The bizarre psychology of asking for money

[elfs]

You know that stage where the recruiter calls you and says, "What kind of compensation are you looking for?" I discovered today something that works shockingly well: don't give them a number.

This was advice I took from a number of websites on negotiating for a raise during a pay review, sites I had bookmarked a couple months ago when I was expecting a contentious discussion with my manager at ${LAST_JOB} over my pay scale. Yeah, I really needed those now.

And yet, I did. It works well for negotiating an initial salary, too. I was talking to a recruiter and he gave me that line, and I said, "I dunno; it's not really like what I was doing at ${LAST_JOB}, so I'm not sure what I should ask for. Why don't you tell me what you think is within their budget?"

He was quiet for a minute. Some recruiters work on commission, so sometimes they're looking for a good commission, too. "Hmm. I think they're somewhere between ${SURPRISING_BIGNUM} and ${SURPRISING_BIGGERNUM}. How does that sound to you?"

I said, "Let's go for it with my resume', and see what they do."

It was just so weird. When you go in, they're looking for cheapness and quality all in one. You want the best price they can give you. Don't underbid yourself: let them tell you what their budget can stand, and go for it.

Comments

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

Learned that a while ago. Make'em sweat.

Break a mouse ball :)

[areitu.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered how to respond when asked "How much did you make at your previous job?" If I ever go on a job prowl again, I'll keep in mind to ask what's in their budget.

The tricky thing for me when I was interviewing for my current job was that I was doing the same thing already.

[codeamazon.livejournal.com]

My first job I blithely gave an annual salary. Fortunately the hiring dude couldn't do quick math -- he named an hour wage that turned out to be much higher. ;-)

Since then, I usually say something like "intangibles and benefits are a crucial component of overall compensation. I really like the way (X) works here, but I'd like to know more about how frequently reviews are scheduled and what your caps on advancement may be."

At that point they will often say something about salary ranges either directly, or inadvertently while they adress room for advancement.

Other places to similarly waffle include intangibles like flex-time and opportunities to build your resume. ("I'm looking forward to learning X, and willing to take a lower wage for the opportunity -- I'm confident I will master it quickly. What process will be used to determine when I am no longer considered entry-level with that skill, and is it fair to assume a raise will be possible at that time?)

Etc. Don't answer, and put the ball back in their court and they will usually start talking.

[areitu.livejournal.com]

What if it was on their job application?

[codeamazon.livejournal.com]

I haven't encountered that one, and I'd guess fringe benefits are less relevant for a job that has that type of app? I suppose you'd fill it in, as it's likely a filter to the next step?

I was trying to share ideas for people hunting for jobs along the lines of those I (and Elf) have sought, as it can be very hard to figure out what to say when the person across the table asks you about salary and it took me a while to figure out how to politely equivocate.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

I frickin' hate the head games that go on in job interviews. I would never stand for it when dating, and I really hate that I have to put up with it while looking for a job. I realize that lots of people are going to lie to get a job, but this kind of thing is just ridiculous.

[areitu.livejournal.com]

It's quite possible that was the case. I don't have too many frige benefits and my job is fairly standard within the industry I work on.

In all of my job interviewing literature, they advocate staying quiet on compensation, but when I saw it on a job application (for a 300 million dollar company) it threw me off as to what to do about that.

[fallenpegasus]

Don't fill in that part.

Better yet, work up to the point where the kinds of jobs you take, don't have application forms.

[satyrblade.livejournal.com]

Rawk!

[maellenkleth]

Yah, good luck. My rule number one is, if pressed for a number, try the Go To Hell rate on the recruiter. I've gotten it, a few times.

[lisakit.livejournal.com]

BIGNUM & BIGGERNUM were surprising? Didn't Omaha tell you how underpaid you were? I was surprised too when you mentioned OLDSALARY the other day. The computer folks at the place I admin'd for earned a little more just starting.

And see, you're worth BIGNUM & BIGGERNUM!

[fallenpegasus]

In a negotiation, never be the first person to name a number. If you HAVE to go first to name a number, make sure you name a good one!