The most awesome counterintelligence move EVER

[elfs]

Now this is thinking with your head:

The Afaghan chieftain looked older than his 60-odd years, and his bearded face bore the creases of a man burdened with duties as tribal patriarch and husband to four younger women. His visitor, a CIA officer, saw an opportunity, and reached into his bag for a small gift.

Four blue pills. Viagra.

"Take one of these. You'll love it," the officer said.

The enticement worked. The officer, who described the encounter, returned four days later to an enthusiastic reception. The grinning chief offered up a bonanza of information about Taliban movements and supply routes -- followed by a request for more pills.

And unlike giving them weapons, there's not likely to be any, uh, blowback. I love this part: "Afghan tribal leaders often had four wives -- the maximum number allowed by the Koran -- and aging village patriarchs were easily sold on the utility of a pill that could 'put them back in an authoritative position.'"

Comments

[shunra.livejournal.com]

Brilliant move, but as a woman, I find this beyond depressing.

[trinsf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was my thought. How horrible for the women involved. *sigh*

[elfs.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to sympathize, but the way this comes across is "Sex for women in a burden and a chore, and having this guy's sexuality restored to him just increases that burden and chore."

I know you don't mean it that way.

[shunra.livejournal.com]

In a society where women don't have a whole lot of options beyond staying in the protection of a man to whom they are given in marriage, I don't think that is an unreasonable description of the situation.

But go beyond the sex-as-pleasure-or-duty question for a moment: how much birth control is available to Afghans? I recall that the maternal death rate was terribly high there. With that in mind, the Viagra could be a death sentence to the grinning chief's consorts.

[shunra.livejournal.com]

I had to go look for the answer. It's really depressing.

"According to UNICEF, fully 97.6 per cent of married women surveyed were not using any sort of contraceptive, while 78 per cent had never even heard of family planning. Afghanistan has one of the highest fertility rates in the world with an average birth rate of 6.75 children per woman."

And also: "In Badakhshan, for every 100,000 babies born, 6,500 women will lose their lives. Healthcare workers maintain this crisis has as much to do with the low social and nutritional status of its victims as it does with the remote and rugged terrain. In Afghanistan as whole, a woman dies of pregnancy-related causes every 27 minutes of every day. In Badakhshan, a woman faces almost 600 times the risk of dying in childbirth than do her counterparts living in North America. Of the thousands of infants left motherless, 75 per cent will perish either during, or soon after, delivery."

Viagara for the men will directly lead to death and misery for the women and children. It is not a culture where sex is a form of amusement, alas.

[trinsf.livejournal.com]

What she said.

[trinsf.livejournal.com]

Nah, how I meant it was more complicated. It was more like, "In a patriarchal society where women are given away in arranged marriages at very early ages and without their consent, there are women who are married to men they did not choose, often much older than they are. One of the small "kindnesses" such women (and girls) may have is that an older husband they are forced to marry has limited sexual ability. However, giving men that cannot otherwise have sex medications to allow them to do so throws off that balance. I doubt that women in that country, in that culture get much choice about when or if they have sex with their husbands, and it seems that this tactic by Americans takes away even more from those women."

If the society were egalitarian, if women there could choose when and if to marry, when and if to have sex, this might be a good thing. Because that's NOT the case, I consider this to be essentially the US bankrolling further subjugation of women there.

[codeamazon.livejournal.com]

Reality is that those women are subjugated, and the only likely change will come from westernization. Whether that is an overall positive is arguable.

Reality is that men who feel impotent tend to exert their authority in other ways. This is ESPECIALLY true of men who reach a position of authority in a patriarchal society, I suspect.

Reality is that for women in such society children are often the only status and reward for hard lives, and younger wives of older men are sometimes shortchanged as a result.

Reality is that women there do not measure their standard of living against ours. Just as I find it bizarre that women here actually were pro-Palin, it is true that many women there are fighting to maintain their 'lifestyle', and our horror is irrelevant to them.

It seems very ethno-centric to me to assume they feel as we might feel in the circumstances. I doubt I'd last long as such a wife -- but then I wasn't raised to be one. Biology is a strong imperative, and it is only the few women who fight and escape that we hear from.

I do not see that viagra for the man is automatically a dis-service to the woman, even in a patriarchal society where sex is entirely at his discretion.

[purly.livejournal.com]

LOL

You continue to report the good ones.

[zonereyrie.livejournal.com]

Wait, you know Elf?

[purly.livejournal.com]

Not really. I just read his journal because it's some funny stuff.

[doodlesthegreat.livejournal.com]

Make love, not war!

[phred1973.livejournal.com]

Tactically, I am very proud. Apparently, we still have some actual intelligent people working at CIA. Bravo.

AS to the outcry from those who point at the cold facts of women's lives in that sector of the world, and scream about the CIA helping to perpetuate the 'problem' as we see it... it's worth it to me. Pointing at someone's actual LIFESTYLE and saying "that's bad and wrong, you are f'ed up" does not make friends. Nudging them to set up legitimate legal processes, however, is worth the effort, and arguably a government system that doesn't rely on which group or person kills the most of his/her/its enemies to gain power is better than one that does, by any measure.

A rather excellent job, I'd say. keep that team employed, thanks.

[mikstera.livejournal.com]

I'd say the institutionalized subjugation of women was a tad more than a mere "lifestyle choice."

[phred1973.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Okay, "Lifestyle" was a poor word choice. How about "Cultural Norms".

100 years ago women did not have the universal right to vote in the United States. Now that right is considered a no-brainer. Of *course* women can vote!

Baby Steps, Baby Steps. Religion plays a big role as well, after all, and I daresay Islam is a tad more stiff on the topic of sex roles and knowing one's place than most current western flavors of 'Christian'.

So, you can either see my actual point, or continue to be offended that I would applaud the CIA officer's gift of four erections to get cooperation from a important figure with access to a great deal of information that can quite possibly save *MY* life. You don't have to agree with me, but please put down the picket sign long enough to try to see where I'm coming from?

Also, how do you know this chieftain is abusive to his womenfolk? - as a man who has lived with two women in a stable 'V' triad for several years, I assure you that households with multiple 'wives' are not in themselves an indicator of oppression or abuse.

Wouldn't automagically assuming his household is a den of injustice, and that he, therefore is an lecherous old bugger taking advantage of fresh young girls and subjecting them to forced sex and evils beyond imagination be wicked in itself?

He *could* be a rather excellent fellow - such folk do exist, even in southwest and central Asia, even among followers of Muhammad, etc.

[mikstera.livejournal.com]

You seemed to be dismissing the concerns over how women are treated, and the consequences of distributing these little blue pills as being a mere quibble about "lifestyle choices."

I interpreted it that way, and responded accordingly. I have no desire to manufacture an argument, or participate in its manufacture.

[codeamazon.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I suspect that even in an arranged and unwelcome marriage, a frustrated man who feels (or is) impotent is more likely to be cruel in other ways. There are much worse ways to be subjugated than sex.

As for the pregnancy risk, in a society where family is a woman's ONLY status, it could be a real boon to a younger wife with an older husband.

Finally, it is unreasonable to assume that all women in a marriage not of their choosing would prefer celibacy. It ignores very basic biological imperatives, and the fact that many people will find satisfaction in what they have available even if it may be utterly unacceptable by our own standards.

The women there do not judge their happiness or success by OUR metrics.

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

If America were really to be concerned about the fate of women in Afghanistan, the faster and more ruthlessly we take the place over, the better. If we are going to stay, that is.

To do that we'd pretty much have to tell the patriarchs "to dig a trench and stand facing it" then replace them with thousands of Marines, a number of whom would get killed over the next ten years of the insurgency.

The village and tribal chiefs call the shots because they keep the loyalty of their people. The more unsettled the security and economic situation are, the more that people cling to their chieftains as the only source of safety in a world gone mad.

Women celebrate having their daughters become wives of the patriarch, unless he is known to be particularly cruel or vile. His wives enjoy greater status which brings with it better nutrition and access to what little medical care is available.

Anything we do to 'corrupt' the tribal leaders away from Islamic fundamentalism will help a little. I think little blue pills are better than a 'pill' in the back of the neck, even if the latter is cheaper.

Half-assing our involvement in Afghanistan has already cost us dearly. 'Stan is where we built our relationship with Bin Laden and nurtured Islamic fundamentalism.

The war's not over until Kabul has three Wal-Marts.

[mikstera.livejournal.com]

This assumes, of course, that our choices are limited to (1) little blue pills, or (b) bullets in the back of the neck, and that the way we're distributing those pills is the only way we can.

IMO, neither of those assumptions need be taken as true.

As for having Wal-Marts in Kabul, I think there's some Articles of War that prohibit that sort of atrocity... and I'm only half-kidding.

What's going to help Afghanistan is widespread education and a viable economy that allows for stability and upward mobility. The question is, how to get from here to there, and what role the US will or should play in that effort. One factor that would help them a lot, and will be heard to achieve... widespread education and fertility control for and in the hands of the women themselves.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

Others have articulately said what I'm thinking, so let me add only, "Authoritative position, ick!"

[hydrolagus.livejournal.com]

I also thought this was a nifty example of the US paying attention to the cultures in the area rather than just relying on force.
As for women's issues, the lives of the wives would probably not improve under Taliban rule or destabilization--raping ones' opponent's women is still a popular strategy, unfortunately. Stable tribes with fairly genial interrelations may be the best they can get in the short term, and tribes that like us are more likely to consider other Western ideas in the long term. We may get an in from this to provide pre- and post-natal care: healthy mothers mean a higher infant survival rate (as well as higher mother survival rate). If children are more likely to live to adulthood it may not be as important to have lots, which opens up possibilities for women.

[phyxis.livejournal.com]

NSFW picture, but amusingly relevant.

http://media.fukung.net/images/11259/868b6656e3d7bac424f5b723583223f2.jpg

the rest of the story

[norincraft.livejournal.com]

Two quick points, though I think the interest expiration date on this post has ended

What they didn't say is that anyone can but Viagra in market of larger cities. Not where this guy was but in Kabul for sure. You can also get industrial strength antibiotics and steroids. All without a prescription.

The other point is tougher. You know how you see the teenage mothers who, when asked what they were thinking in getting pregnant when they can't reasonable raise the kid, only say they wanted something to love. As though the child would be a pet. Its hard to wrap your mind around, especially in our country. Its similar in Afghanistan.

That literally is all they know. The women they see have the comfort of their kids and that is it. They only see arranged marriages. The television (in the off chance they have any) are Iranian and Farsi translated Egyptian movies with a very few others thrown in. Again, arranged marriages and strife (I can tell an Egyptian movie when I walk in the door - bad sound levels and lots of shouting). And of course, the movies are in Arabic, not Dari/Farsi or any of the other tribal languages.

I guess it the difference between moral outrage (from a lot of the posters) and cultural sensitivity (on behalf of the agent).