Problem? Solution.

[elfs]

Gay bashing? On Capitol Hill? I saw this in the paper this morning and could barely believe it.

One in twenty adults in the state of Washington is licensed to carry a concealed handgun. If we reminded those idiots of this fact, this would probably not be a problem. Unfortunately, gays probably don't have carry licenses to the extent that straights do. There's a way to correct that problem.

Comments

[blackcoat.livejournal.com]

out of curiosity, are you one of the twenty?

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

My personal policy is never to comment on certain security-related matters, such as whether or not I carry a firearm and under what conditions.

That said, the armed American liberal is a force for peace and freedom.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

Oh cute.

The article basically justifies the attacks because "There's no pink triangle announcing that you're entering the gay neighborhood" and "gays and straights are mingling more than ever. What can you expect?"

So if black ghettoes disappeared and integrated into the rest of society, would racial violence be a natural and expected outcome? What is this, the 1950's?

The solution to this problem isn't arming yourselves in self defence. That will just mean the gay bashers will escalate in kind. I imagine that a war might get the attention of the people in charge, but there's other ways to make sure they take this sort of thing seriously.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

And perhaps you could try the civilized option *before* taking the vigilante option?

My impression from the article is that these attacks aren't exactly being prosecuted very vigorously. At the very least, you should send a big, fat letter to the editor about the *newspaper's* attitude to these crimes, which is "Oh well, that's what happens when the ghetto goes away".

Then after that, perhaps showing up at city hall asking questions about why they let this sort of thing happen. Perhaps with a big sign asking said questions.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

I seem to recall that's what they invented cell phones for.

[antonia-tiger.livejournal.com]

Don't forget the hassles you will get if you actually use a gun for self-defence. It's a part of the overall system, but not eveyone will want to face that.

And the really worrying prospect is that the style of the reporting suggests a gay person would get far more hassle, just for being gay.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

The problem is that criminals, by definition, don't follow laws.

Criminals are especially prone to breaking laws that they know they can get away with because noone cares. See also: missing prostitutes.

[(Anonymous)]

If they've jumped you, or are about to, it's *far* to late for a 911 call to do any good.

First off, they can't pin your location down closer than a few blocks unless you've got a GPS enabled phone.

Second, the response time is going to be 10 or more minutes.

The police are not there to stop crime nor to protect the public. They are there to attempt to catch the criminals *after* the crime. That's what the courts have ruled time and again.

[fallenpegasus]

Have you ever called 911 asking for immediate police response?

Have you ever called 911 on a cellphone asking for immediate police response?

I have.

It's educational.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

Okay, let's run through a couple of scenarios then.

#1: You're walking home from the store one night with your boyfriend. 6 drunken assholes see you together and come your way. You get uncomfortable because you've seen this movie before. Do you:

a) wait for the inevitable confrontation and talk to them nicely.
b) Whip out your phone when you see trouble coming, call a friend on speed dial and tell him where you are, and should he hear painful screams in the moments to come to please call 911. Stay on the phone for a while.
c) wait for the inevitable confrontation and pull out your gun, hoping to hell they aren't similarly armed.
d) wait for the inevitable confrontation and run the fuck away, pull out your cell and dial 911. Then let the operator figure out WTF is going on, get a GPS lock on your phone (standard on all phones these days), and send someone by to pick up the pieces afterwards, arriving in time either to chase them off or at the very least to stop the bleeding.

#2: You're walking down the street with your boyfriend, and an undetermined number of assholes clocks you in the back of the head and knocks you to the ground where you are subsequently assaulted. Do you:

a) Cover your head and pray you don't die.
b) get shot to death with your own gun.
c) Cover your head, pray you don't die, and prosecute later.

In scenario #1, which sounds pretty close to the "are you some kind of faggot" story in the paper, you see this shit coming and if you play your cards right, you have a pretty good chance at putting some assholes in jail or maybe even avoiding the situation entirely. If you don't play your cards right, you can get killed. Possibly even with your own gun. I choose B.

In scenario #2, (which the "thinking" homophobe will choose, as it presents the lowest likelihood of jail time and self defence on the victim's part), you have a *very high* likelihood of getting killed if you're packing heat, because you have no chance to defend yourself.

Remember that in both scenarios, you're pretty much fucked. You're outnumbered or surprised. There is very little you can do to prevent the situation if it comes down to something where you need a gun. And while you might just get the chance to bag some homophobic assholes, his friends are all likely to tell a jury that you shot him for no reason at all, and *you* get to go to jail. A call to 911 is handy because shouted epithets like "die faggot die" get recorded all nice and proper for the trial.

The civilized solution coincidentally, is to raise a big stink in the newspapers, prosecute the motherfuckers, and send them to jail. All after the fact, because you can't *prevent* evil, you can only deal with it after it's been acted upon. Should you decide after the fact that you should just hide in the closet and *not* prosecute, you ensure that more people get hurt and the assholes in question keep doing it because they know they'll never get caught.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

Yes, on several occasions, actually. My phone informed me that the E-911 GPS (oh, look, 2 seconds of googling brought up King County's E-911 (http://www.metrokc.gov/gis/projects/E911/E911_overview.htm)) was activated, and the firefighters showed up within 2 minutes. In the case of my auto accident, the paramedics were not long afterwards and the police just drove by and ignored the wounded pedestrian. In the case of the serious auto accident I witnessed (which snarled traffic in both directions for several blocks) the police were actually the first ones there, although about 10 or 15 minutes afterwards. And when I called about a vehicle burglary in the middle of the night, the police were there in about 2 minutes.

If your police response times are laughable, perhaps you should be standing outside city hall asking questions about that? With reporters in tow?

Also, the police are never going to show up in time to prevent a beating no matter how you cut it. But if you do it right, (ie, run, then call) they'll show up in time to be your professional witnesses at the assaulter's trial. And that goes a long, long way.

[gromm.livejournal.com]

Dude, the 6 drunken assholes scenario was your idea. And in that scenario, self defence is going to get your ass killed, even if, and very likley especially if you have a gun. Why?

A friend of mine who was trained as a sniper in the army tells me that it's pretty normal for people - especially untrained civilians - to stick around and try to defend themselves in impossible-to-win situations, simply because they've got a weapon. Instead of realizing their vulnerability and running the fuck away. In a 6 to 1 or even a 6 to 2 fight - even if you have the chance to draw your weapon - the odds are not in your favour.

Even better, and much more importantly, is that you give *them* the legal advantage. Every eyewitness present will say that you drew your weapon and started shooting at them without provocation. Carrying and using a firearm is a last-resort, lethal-force self defence mechanism. Even (or is that especially?) police officers don't use them if they're only going to be assaulted. There are plenty of other methods that don't involve such extreme measures.

If you want real advice for defending yourself against assaults like this, go ask at your local police department. They *often* distribute all kinds of information about what to do in such a situation. Information that's actually useful and tested in real-world situations. Usually at the top of the list is "don't carry a gun".

And what do you know? A quick google brings up this webpage: http://www.cityofvancouver.us/police.asp?policeID=31530&policeSubID=31555

[gromm.livejournal.com]

Here's a better link:

http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/police/crimeprevention/PStips.htm

I like this quote:

"Most policemen killed in the line of duty are done so with their own weapon, even though they are trained in their use."