Terrorists strike in America's heartland

[elfs]

This is not a drill:

Police were looking for a blue Ford Taurus with a Kansas State vanity plate, license number 225 BAB. Police described him as a white male in his 50s or 60s, 6 feet 1 inch tall, 220 pounds, wearing a white shirt and dark pants.

The man is wanted in the death of Dr. George Tiller, a Kansas man who became one of the most famous figures in the national debate over abortion, who was shot and killed at his church Sunday morning, KAKE-TV reported.

Comments

[shunra.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the TSA will start double-searching people with a devout Christian look-and-feel now...

[delphanaeous.livejournal.com]

Presuming, of course, that the shooter is Pro Life... is this not the very definition of hypocrisy?

[kengr]

"Oh, but that's not terrorism..."

[darrelx.livejournal.com]

Terrorism? Sounds like homocide to me so far... how is this a "terrorist" act?

They don't know who the shooter is, nor what his motive was. Aren't you simply assuming that snice the victim ran a late-term abortion clinic and was previously found not guilty of 19 counts of violating state law in that regard, that the shooter was a pro-lifer, and thus you dub him terrorist?

[shunra.livejournal.com]

You mean it's still safe to fly in conservative business attire?

[kengr]

They aren't that strong at logic to start with.

None of them have actually considered what "life begins at conception" *means* in terms of the changes it'd require to society. And wthe way it'd *require* making women virtual slaves to avoid accidental deaths of possible babies.

[kengr]

It's virtually certain that he was killed because he was a "notorious" abortion provider.

Which makes it a murder (assassination!) intended to scare other abortion providers.

A murder or other attack on a member of a group, especially a prominent member) with the intent (primary or secondary) of terrifying the rest of the group is the very *essence* of terrorism.

[kengr]

Probably.

I kinda hope this pushes the "authorities" to start considering right wing and "Christian" terrorists. Including the same sort of "profiling" we've seen for other groups.

This could have a couple of useful effects. First, it might get across how *stupid* some of the profiling stuff is.

Second, it might wake up the general public to the danger of certain right wing and/or religious types.

[elfs.livejournal.com]

Actually, it sounds like assassination in the pursuit of cultural goals. What happened to Tiller is no different from the "assassination in pursuit of cultural goals" that goes on day in and day out, still, inside the borders of Iraq, and which we label "terrorism."

Until we have compelling information otherwise, it is safe to assume that this guy, who was on Bill O'Reilly's list of "baby killers," and who was the victim of a previous culturally motivated assassination attempt, was killed because he provided a safe and legal medical procedure to the women of Kansas.

In broad daylight. On a Sunday. At church. This was a message, loud and clear, to the physicians of America: stop providing this legal medical procedure or We Will Kill You.

The pro-life movement ought to avoid adopting the Islamofacist tactic of cultivating a reputation for wild, random acts of violence whenever it feels offended.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

Not really.

See, they're saving lives by killing a murderer. They're only pro-innocent-life, and since he's guilty he doesn't count.

It's how people can be pro-life and pro-death penalty at the same time.

[delphanaeous.livejournal.com]

It always seems so sad to me that it is the people who believe most fervently that their intelligence is a gift from God who in turn are least likely to use it.

[darrelx.livejournal.com]

I think there is a line between "Cultural assassinaion" and "Terrorism" that was not crossed here.

Terrorism makes everyday folks afraid to go outside (bombing a bus or a shopping center, for example). Cultural assassination targets specific persons, and is homocide, not terrorism.

[mikstera.livejournal.com]

Terrorism makes everyday folks who are members of a particular group, and targeted as such afraid to go outside.

That group could be "the civilian public" or "black people" or "doctors who perform abortions"... but the object is still to incite terror so as to achieve one's ends, so I'd say it was still "terrorism."

[elfs.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Assassination targets one person for some gain. Terrorism intends its acts of violence to achieve long-term goals within the survivors. This is clearly the latter.

And from a strictly Darwinian point of view, if it works, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of it. I'm sure the fellow who was famously photographed with the poster "Behead those who insult Islam!" during the Dutch Cartoon row didn't consciously adopt the idea that he loves his culture because it produces crazed outliers who randomly inflict fear on those who dismiss or disrespect it.

[elfs.livejournal.com]

Michelle Malkin agrees (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/06/01/notes-on-the-murder-of-george-tiller/): "Late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down at his church in Kansas Sunday morning in a thoroughly evil, cold-blooded act of domestic terrorism. Yes, terrorism. Not 'extremism.'"

[darrelx.livejournal.com]

Then you are presuming to know the shooter's motive for killing this doctor.

If his motive was personal (like his own girlfriend or his sister was given a late-term abortion by this guy) then it is murder, not suicide.

If his motive was to randomly kill a doctor known to give late-term abortions, then perhaps it can be classified as terrorism.

But again, Neither you nor the columnist Michelle Malkin know the shooter's motives, so terrorism is a presumption, not a fact.

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

The FBI defines terrorism as, "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." (Reference: Denver FBI office terrorism page.

Thus, targeting a specific person for political or social objectives is terrorism, absolutely. Assassination (Wikipedia entry) is merely a term for targeted killing, often misused in the media and elsewhere to describe homicides which meet the elements for premeditation or lying in wait.

This murder is newsworthy because the target is a controversial public figure, and because of the open and notorious manner in which the murder was carried out. (In church on Sunday!) The effect, aided and abetted by the news media, is to substantially coerce and intimidate two populations: doctors who provide a controversial medical service, and vulnerable women who seek that service.

If the shooter discloses or is discovered through police investigation to have intended the killing as a political or social statement, then it is certainly a terrorist act and additional Federal charges could be pressed on that basis.

If not, it may still have a chilling effect on presently legal conduct, such as medical students choosing to become qualified to perform abortions, new physicians offering women's health care services in conservative areas, and the distance that women seeking this type of medical care will have to travel to get it.

If the murder is perceived to be a terrorist act, whether or not it was, the perception may easily take on a life of its own. This belief, fanned into flame by militant groups, is a form of memetic warfare in which a crazy person is made a hero and a murderer becomes a martyr, thus encouraging more loose nuts to work loose and spreading more fear. Such hate speech is not generally a crime in the United States, but in my opinion is morally bankrupt.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_candide_/]

No, no they're well aware what, "life begins at conception," means.

That's the whole point of their movement, after all.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_candide_/]

Several public, "pro-life," ministers are already on record saying that, "pro-life is only for innocent life," in response to the possibility of a "gay gene" being found.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_candide_/]

My other half's (epinoid's) aunt was a nurse. If I recall correctly, she once described late-term abortion proceedings thusly: how you end a pregnancy that isn't going to result in a live birth by any stretch of the imagination. Aside from still-births, she described a few rather nasty birth-defects that reduce to 0% the chance of survival outside of the womb for more than a day or two.

These facts are being totally lost in the so-called "debate" about abortion. Sometimes there is a valid medical reason for ending a pregnancy, late-term or otherwise.

[kengr]

Use the Internet Archive (aka "the Watback machine") to look at the posts someone with the same name made on Operation Rescue's web site.

He'll even OR admits that he posted there but they quickly add that he wasn't a member or contributor.

The guy has a *history*. He was arrested in the past for possessing bomb making materiels.

It's *possible* that his motive was personal, but the odds are against it.

[kengr]

The *leaders* may well be. The rank and file haven't thought thru the implications.

I've gotten a number of people to reconsider their position after pointing out just what enshrining "life begins at conception" would actually *mean in terms of changes in society.

[wendor.livejournal.com]

Since he has now admitted that it was not only based on "a doctor known to give late-term abortions", but has issued a warning that other such attacks are planned, it would appear that the question is settled and it most certainly does meet the definition of "terrorism".

"I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal," Roeder said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_us/us_abortion_shooting